There is a direct link between religion and ignorance. There, I said it.
Sometimes it IS a shock to come across people who appear both intelligent and cultured to open their mouths and fuck that all up. While I do believe that the Bible can teach some good lessons to live your life by, it is outdated. Just think about this: People are still live their lives by a book that was written BEFORE the world was known to be round. What?! Yes, it's true...the majority of people thought that if you walked far enough you would fall off the edge of the world. Hey, God never promised to make you SMART!
I reason I bring this all up is because daily I am bombarded with this utter bullshit. Now that Bush has a "mandate" to rule this country and bring it to the edge of ruin (a thing that evangelistic Christians and Republicans don't even NOTICE because they are so concentrated on taking humanity away from homosexuals and stopping abortions) religion has gotten a booster shot in the arm. It's gotten me so sick. I get pissed each day that I see politics mixed in with religion. I've even experienced times when I've found myself interacting with a pretty girl and we start talking and hitting it off nicely...only to have her say something about Bush or religion or anti-gay/abortion...and my stomach churns. She might as well have drooled and said "My genital warts are itching today.”.
I think I made an untrue statement earlier; religion and ignorance aren't directly related...religion and flat-out stupidity are. That's why an astounding majority of voters picked Bush not because of the economy or war or other justifiable reason...but because of MORAL VALUES. Are you kidding me? Because the nitwit thinks that gays should be hog-tied and thrown in the river and woman who have abortions should be beheaded...THAT equals moral values?!
Sometimes I think America is a fuckup.
Religion is not wholly bad...I guess. Some people are capable as seeing the Bible for what it is and don't interpret it fanatically. Just do me a favor...if you are religous and don't want your children to grow up being as fucking stupid as you are...don't teach them the Bible. If they decide to flock to the ankles of God, let them do it voluntarily and of their own free will later in life. When they are older and hopefully smarter, that's when they are of the age to decide. Forcefeeding them Jesus while still in diapers...well you might as well drop them on their heads from two floors up. The end result will be the same anyway.
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Wow...I'm first! Cool!
First: Thanks for the comment on my site and the link. The problems you listed are not exclusive to women. I have a knack for being attracted to guys who are carrying a torch for a lost love. It seems that beginning a relationship with me is a sure way to make themselves more attractive to the woman who dumped them - thus ending that relationship with me. I feel you pain. It is also my pain.
Second: I am far from fanatical, but I am religious. I consider myself a Christian, I attend church weekly and I sing in the choir. I did not vote for Bush. I believe in gay rights. And, lucky for you, I've never been known to stone to death any non-believers. Other than my inadequacies in the social/dating category, I'm a fairly smart woman with a good-paying job. We're not all stupid, Charlie. Just like all guys are not assholes. :-)
Good points Word. I think Religion is wonderful in someone's life if it's not taken to an extreme. But, you must admit that religion has been the root cause of almost every major conflict in the history of the world because it is taken so literally and most religions exclude or look down upon anyone who does not believe in that particular religion.
In another time, much of religion would be considered witchcraft. I certainly don't mind people following their religion, until it gets in the way of such things as the rights of people to get married, have abortions, etc.
That isn't going on now, is it?
C-Mac getting political? Rare on here, but it's cool you threw us a curveball today!
CMac - every day you bring more things to the table that make me have just a teensy-weensy crush on you. I have the same view point on religion as you do.
I was raised in Vegas, a city which runs the gamut from heathens to religious zealots (we even have a Mormon temple, and I grew up on the opposing block from a Mormon "Church of the Latter Day Saints" - how's that for the tie-in to your last post), where religion was a choice our family made as individuals.
Then I get uprooted to a small, rural town in Georgia, where the 1st two questions I was asked were "Who are you kin to?" and "What church do you go to?" That's all they cared about. And I was kicked out of the high school library for having a heated theological debate/discussion with a fellow classmate - I was asked to leave, he, who was a Southern Baptist, received no chastizing. (He later went to the same college as me and became a Philosophy major and then thanked me for making him think about the blind faith his parents forced him through.)
Yeah, I'm ranting... but seriously, I think you took your religion/America speech right from my head. Bush is supposed to be a President, not a religious/moral advisor.
Extreme Religion!
I think anything taken to an extreme is negative. I also think that, no matter what you believe and how strongly you believe it, you have to be not only tolerant of other opinions, but willing to consider them. Having too narrow a perspective prevents a person from learning. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." -Epictetus
If you cannot support and argue the beliefs you stand steadfastly behind, what does this say about your ability to think and discern? It is extreme and exclusive thought that has been at the root of historical conflict - whether those extremes involve religion, racism, bigotry or national pride.
Okay, I'll stop waxing philosophical now. Nobody likes a soapbox lecturer!!
well Muse, now that you have me blushing.... I am glad you agree with me. I am so not against religion, I just don't want the government force feeding it to it's citizens. That's not what this country is about. America is about the freedom to practice your religion not push it on others. I hope the country starts to swing the other way in 2008, this is getting way too scary!
Patrick, good point, thanks for stopping by!
Freaky, you'll have to stop by my office later and rant about religion!
Wordwhiz, you can bring your soapbox here anytime! :) I respect your views and the points you make.
CMac - I'm definitely not against religion. I just don't trust the "group mentality" that it usually becomes. I believe that religion should be a personal decision, and no person should be ostracized for their beliefs. If people choose to practice/worship together, i.e., in a church setting, by all means, do. But don't forcefeed it to me or think less of me because I've made different choices.
(I also happen to be a Kevin Smith fan, so I find humor like that in "Dogma" very amusing and not offensive.)
you said the f word! I am a spiritual person and believe in God. Though people like Bush use it to make their evil speeches.
Good points Darian! I'll send the "Cable Guy" over to your office later for a follow-up discussion! haha
Muse- You are right on the money with your comments! I knew I liked you for a reason and not just for your nice picture and good looks. ;)
MrsMogul- Bush is nothing but a hypocrite! :)
America is becoming a frightening place more and more nowadays. Speaking as a gay man, I am more worried all the time. I grew up in a completely non religious household, so have NO viewpoints on God, Jesus, etc...
Except to say, Karl Marx may have said it best..."Religion is the opiate of the masses."
Now who's blushing? ;)
c-mac check this site. i'm sure u wouldn't mind working for him ;)http://www.niteowl.tv/
It's amazing that you post the word ignorance since it means "lack of knowledge or awareness." Have you read the bible? Do you know Jesus Christ as your Savior? I think it's ignorant on your part to comment about this subject if you have no knowledge of either. You'd have more credibility if you were a subject matter expert - which you obviously aren't.
Hey Mr. or Ms. Anonymous-
You don't sound like too much of an expert yourself. As far as credibility, my post is what I believe, I am not stating it as fact, just as my stance. Whether you agree or not is your decision.
Yes, I have read the Bible, and a good portion of it no longer applies to the world in which we live. Perhaps you should pick up a science book or a history book one day when you are not in church or reading the Bilbe and get in tune with today's world.
I finished reading your blog and like your writing; it's thoughtful, insightful and amusing. And you're right, it is your opinion, but why are you so angry at those who don't agree w/you. The bible is and always will be in tune w/today's world, because the God that created this universe is the same God who wrote the history book you're asking me to read. Just because the world has changed, doesn't mean God has to conform to this world. And it's Ms.
Sorry...I said I'd get off the soapbox. I got a nasty anonymous comment on my site one time (now I don't allow anonymous comments). It irks me tremendously that people will lash out at someone and be unwilling to identify themselves. If you believe in what you say, you shouldn't be ashamed to share your identity! Hiding behind anonymity is simply cowardice!
Okay, that drum beaten, I'll move on. (Egads...I bet you're sorry you ever posted on my site, aren't you?) I agree with you to a point concerning government, however I think people misunderstand separation of church and state. It was created to keep government from dictating its citizen's religious beliefs. However, some people view it as a restriction to expressing one's religious beliefs. This will no doubt offend Patrick, but my 17-year-old daughter went to school today wearing a t-shirt denouncing abortion. Whether I agree with her position is irrelevant. If students are permitted to wear t-shirts expressing slogans or political leanings, she should not be condemned for expressing her beliefs on her shirt. We tend to criticize people who openly express opinions founded in their religion. We say: That's out of place here. Any expressions which are clearly exclusionary, derogatory, pointedly offensive or hateful have no place anywhere. But for me to express the opinion that I ultimately answer to a higher authority does not fall into that category. You may disagree, but I also don't believe that "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance or posting the ten commandments in a court of law violates anyone's civil rights. But I admit that that is MY OPINION.
Sorry...I don't generally get on these diatribes. My blogsite is clearly not a religious or political statement. I just don't deal well with narrow minded statements - on EITHER side of an issue.
Mr./Ms Anonymous-
I am not at all angry. Just making a point. I just don't like government promoting religion, that's all. people can worship as they see fit. Depending on what we believe happens after we pass, we'll all pay for our wrong doing then. Glad you liked the site here in general.
Wordwhiz- I agree, your daughter has EVERY right to wear that shirt and should not be sent home or whatever for it. My problem with America and Bush is this....he should not promote his religious beliefs while in public office. His beliefs are slowing us down in areas of stem cell research which would benefit millions of Americans. He is supposed to do what's right for the country, not what's good for a select few that believe in the same things as him. About abortion, if one does not believe in it, don't have one. Plain and simple. The ones that do will answer for it someday when they are judged by God if that's what you believe. The pledge of allegiance in general is bullshit, Under God or No Under God in it. People's actions and what they do in society and for others dictate their allegiance for the country, not some memorized saying that really means nothing but a memorized statement to most.
Dear Lord:
Protect me from your followers.
Amen.
hahahahaha Bridget!
Charlie: Agreed...mostly. (You hate me, don't you?) I disagree with your statement about "if you're opposed to abortion, don't have one." I've found myself on both sides of this explosive issue so I tend not go involve myself in debates about it. However, while I would and do agree with that statement as it applies to gay marriage (how does gay marriage hurt someone morally opposed to homosexuality??), people opposed to abortion view it as the etermination of a human life - more or less murder. To say, "if you don't agree with murder, don't commit one" is clearly a ridiculous statement. But that's basically what you're saying. However, we DO approve of murder in certain situations: war, capital punishment, self-defense...so one could say there is room for argument concerning the debate about abortion in certain circumstances. I'm not in favor of abortion in general, but see it as the lesser of two evils in certain situations. Does that make sense?
OK...no matter WHAT...I PROMISE not to post another comment on on your blogsite which is not light-hearted, humorous or sexual!
Hey Wordwhiz- I don't hate you! That's what this is all about, people expressing themselves, i enjoy the debate and seeing other's perspectives. it's all good. I usually don't write political or religious posts, I just had the urge today....I'm going back to humor and sex myself! :) I appreciate all of your comments, anytime!
Wow! Like your post. I have studied the Bible pretty extensively, in fact my degree is in ministry and I spent many years as a youth minister. My problem is not with the Bible, it's with man's interpretation of the Bible, and man's arrogance in assuming they can interpret it however they need at the moment. There is nothing on earth that has done more to tweak God's intentions for mankind than the American church. I know it first hand - I worked for one of the largest churches in the country for many years. (If you guys have one pop into your head right now, that's probably it - it's been in the news quite a bit lately) And Bush is the most public offender - total hypocrite. He uses Christianity to gain voters when most of what he supports is not even Biblical. Not to get on a major soapbox, but let me give one example...I have two little girls. I am the first one to say that if anyone touches them, does anything to hurt them, takes away their innocence, I would want them taken out. That's my instinct as a mother. But by definition, Christians are to be Christ-like, and I believe that if you take the most heinous serial killer before Jesus, there's no way he would say to put him to death. No way. So in comes George Bush, and most republicans for that matter (sorry all you Republicans, if I'm generalizing), who call themselves Christians and support that which Jesus would not. Again - selective Bible interpretation and my inherent problem with the church today.
And no one is really willing to address those issues when faced with them. Why hasn't anyone challenged Bush on his hypocritical religous stance? I'll tell you why - because of their own religous/political agenda and forcing others to live the way they "interpret" the Bible to direct.
I believe in God, but I hate what we have done with religion and I believe there lies the difference.
well done Steph, well done!
Holy Crap, that's a lot of comments! I guess you bring up religion and EVERYONE has an opinion.
I often wonder if its a geographical thing, too. Meaning, here we are in the northeast, near the biggest city in the world (not in size, but you know what I mean) and we believe the same thing - religion is fine for some, but we don't make our decisions based on it and we want it kept apart from our politics (and our bedrooms). We are pro-choice and don't care what people do as far as sex goes. If you are on one of the coasts, you most likely agree with us. If you are in the middle of the country or in the south, you most likely disagree (mostly likely, folks). Interesting, no?
TrueJerseyGirl, you are absolutely right on the money. It's amazing how different we all see things. i suppose that is the beauty of America. I do have to say that we in the "blue" states are much more tolerant of different races, religions, ethnicities, and sexual orientations than the "red" states are. I keep my nose out of other people's personal business. If two men want to have sex, fine, if someone wants to have an abortion...I may not agree with abortion itself, but I am not going to tell them they can't do it..it's their choice. I am all about people making choices for their own lives, as long as it does not infringe on other people's rights.
Steph, you’re so right. Man’s interpretation is the problem – but thank God we live in a country where we have the right and privilege to write anything and say anything we’d like. Saddam didn’t give anyone the right to speak their mind. It was his or his henchmen’s way or no way. I think it’s sad that there are people who don’t recognize how awesome living in the U.S. is (not saying you or liberals, just generalizing).
There were two thieves on crosses on each side of Christ. One recognized Christ's deity and one refused. One is with Him in paradise and one is in hell. Christ knows who accepts Him and who doesn't. We have free will. Jesus didn’t want the one to go to hell, but it was his choice, just like it would be the choice of your heinous serial killer.
Not too much of a comment here. I was born Catholic but I do not practice. I feel people should be free to practice the religion of their choice. Growing up it was never a problem now everyone has an opinion. I would much rather be in a country that bases it's morals on the bible rather than Allah!
Pleease! I don't think we are moving towards beheading for women who have an abortion. We'll leave that to the Muslims. Oh they would do it for alot less reason than that. We need to stop taking the side of the enemy. Remember 9-11? Thanks Clinton for patronizing the enemy and making this country of 13 year old mothers and hand outs for the ones that don't want to get off their asses and work toward your right to live in this country. That's it.
Just because you're religious doesn't mean you're republican. Remember John Kerry and Bill Clinton in the Baptist churches praying to God? Maybe they went to church to look for votes. Talk about hyprocrites|
People are so misguided about mixing politics and religion. It's no more mixed today than it ever was. People concern themselves too much with it and blowing it out of proportion.
Always looking to pick on something when there really isn't anything to pick on.
To the other Anonymous:
Dragging Clinton into it now, are we? Read this for an alternate view:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=527082005
To the anonymous who said that just because you're religous doesn't mean you're republican - I totally agree. My comments earlier were based on political leaders using Christianity for their own purposes and they are, for the most part, republican. I also think that a lot of Christians let the religion dictate their choices at the polls and I think that's foolish. If you vote for a candidate because he/she believes in what you feel strongly about - go for it! That's what the system is for, to hopefully give everyone an equal vote (but don't even get me started on Bush taking the last two elections). But I saw first hand thousands upon thousands of people walking into our church office to pick up a list of candidates and issues that the church wanted everyone to vote for. I cannot tell you how many people voted blindly based on the church's recommendations.
How many churches ostrasize homosexuals and, in a very non-verbal way, encourage their members to do the same? I am a Christian, I made that choice a long time ago, but Jesus walked this earth preaching that it's all about love. Tell me what's loving about the war that Bush (a self-proclaimed Christian) started for his self-motivated reasons. What's loving about the kind of money we spend on death and destruction while witholding funds that could possibly save people from genocide that is still taking place all over the world? Or the selling of children into sexual slavery?
Oh, shit, now you got me started.
P.S. The best thing about this country is that we can have this conversation freely, and I think we are all INCREDIBLY thankful for that!
I agree with Steph, this is a great country indeed. Why are those who hate it so much still live here. Like Michael Moron.
Ok, first for the idiot who mentioned 9/11 which has NOTHING to do with this, yeah I remember 9/11, the attack that happened on Bush's watch. At least Clinton's administration CAUGHT the people who bombed the Trade Center the first time, CAUGHT the people responsible for Oklahoma City, FOILED attacks on NYC's subways and tunnels, LA Airport, and Seattle. Where's Bin Laden?...oh yeah still not caught FOUR years later....so gimme a break with this Bush tough on terrorism bullshit. Maybe if the government wasn't tied up for TWO years investigating a BLOWJOB Clinton got he could have done more against terrorism rather than defending a personal affair.
Now for the other bullshit:
1) Enough with this bullshit if we don't like it here leave. I love my country enough not to be brainwashed and go along with EVERYTHING the government says. That's what this country is about, questioning and challenging...read the Constitution.
2) About Clinton making this a nation of 13 year old mothers getting handouts, again you are misinformed. It was under CLINTON that we had the biggest overhaul of welfare in history. AND he got it passed with a REPUBLICAN majority congress. At least he worked and compromised. Bush can't even get shit done with his own party running Congress.
3) For the other "anonymous" to say that religion isn't more involved in government now...that it's always been like this......read a newspaper, watch the news....you can't tell me that everything we see and hear is censored. Talk about a conflict of interest, MICHAEL POWELL was running the FCC for a few years, come on now. It's people like you that get more upset over Janet Jackson's nipple than the US losing almost 2,000 soldiers for a bullshit cause.
I agree with Charlie...if we don't like what's going on, it doesn't mean we don't love our country. Show some loyalty. Use your vote and your voice to change it.
I'm not ultra patriotic, but I recognize and appreciate our right to NOT like what's going on.
Back to the religion issue, then I'm done. As an American, I appreciate the church staying out of my government. As a Christian, I appreciate the government staying out of my beliefs. Can we at least all agree on that?
I don’t believe in any of your gods. I believe in my God. My God is a God of Truth, Love, Peace, Happiness, Goodness, as well as many more I can name but do not have enough space to do so. It is certainly not the god of fundamentalist and Bush. In fact it is not the god of the bible. My God transcends all of that. My God cannot be summed up in a book. It is all to encompassing. Best of all, my God accepts all people who believe in any form they like to see my God. I do not like society’s god. They can quote the bible all they want. It don’t care for it. Most of all I do not like when they try to push this false god on me.
Lots of good things being said here. Go Charlie for having intelligent fans and a nice rational respectful debate!! :)
I think the reason the religious right (the lame ones who want to push their beliefs on everyone else, not the chill ones who just enjoy God and Jesus and love) has been upping their game lately and getting majorly involved in politics is because of the culture war. Religion is in fact slowly disappearing as a major foundation in people's lives. It is not nearly as important as it used to be, and you'll find more non-religious and non-practicing people in the population today than ever before. There's a far more casual attitude in our culture in general towards sex and religion... and this FREAKS THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT OUT. They feel their grip and influence in culture slipping... and now they're retaliating like rabid dogs having their bone stolen from them.
I just hope they don't start gaining people back through their hate-mongering or cause permanent damage to our country doing so. Why don't they remember this country was founded on tolerance? Allowing everyone to do their own thing, and not restrict them from it (as long as it doesn't endanger other people's lives, like murder).
And btw TrueJerseyGirl and Charlie-
Regarding geography... I actually think it's more of an urban vs. rural thing than red state vs. blue state or coast vs. middle of country. It just happens that most of the large urban centers are on the coast. I think you'll find that even in a red state, you'll find far more tolarence and liberalism in the urban areas than the rural. The rural just happen to outnumber the urban. I think urban centers promote learning and tolerance, just from exposure to so many different people and ideas.
Thank god I live in NYC, the biggest urban center of all!! :)
JRAE, thanks for your insight. I appreciate the comment. I too am glad we all can debate our differences in a forum like this and in many other forums, it's what makes America so great. I enjoy seeing other people's perspectives whether I agree or disagree, it's what makes us all a bit brighter.
Not for nothing but even though we caught the 1993 World Trade bomber Bin Laden was also involved in that and Clinton refused to take him when he was going to be handed to us on a silver platter. More attacks happened on his watch.
Guess I should not bring up the fact that the REAGAN administration aremed and trained Bin Laden as well as Saddam Hussein back in the 1980's.
Now we can thank France for helping Saddam out. We didn't arm them with mustard gas though. Obviously he had something to hide if he wouldn't let the weapons inspectors in. He had plenty of time to clean house.Do you really doubt this man was a threat?
No, I just doubt that he was the most important, immediate threat at the time that needed addressing first.
Now North Korea has nuclear weapons... Saddam did not. We should've addressed North Korea before Saddam, if we could've. Bin Laden's still on the loose to plan more terrorist attacks... we should've addressed him and his organization before spending billions of dollars and resources on a war that is still not resolved in Iraq, and really hasn't done ANYTHING AT ALL to protect us from further terrorist attacks.
There are tons of evil dictators and people in the world. Can we address all of them? No, we need to prioritize the most immediate threats to us. And it has become clear Saddam was not one of them.
right on JRAE!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Jrae just remember who gave Korea their nuclear reactor. Plus we can shoot down anything they send our way plus,it's easier to conceal biological weapons. All you need is a little vile. "Saddam was a threat to all and needs to be stopped" Do you know who said that? Probably not because you may hear only what you choose to hear.Or what you only hear from the Bush haters. I'm not saying I like Bush but he is the president and with so many people showing hatred it is making it worse for this country. Especially with people in the media like Newsweek and Dan Rather.
No one agrees with war and this war maybe is a flop now. But obviously it is bringing out alot of these "insurgents" in the open and that's the type of people that need to be dealt with. You may not see it now but years from now taking Saddam out of power will be realized that was a good thing.If we took him out and left there then people would be saying "How awful we were to leave the country in that condition"
Remember the WMD he used on the Kurds? Or did we also forget that too?
hey Anonymous, nobody's questioning the threat Saddam may have posed, the issue I have is putting the hunt for Bin Laden and the people responsible for the DIRECT attack on us, on hold to go after Saddam, that should have been done after the other issue was resolved. This was nothing more than a ploy to divert attention from the inability to catch Bin laden "dead or alive" as our Cowboy President said on 9/13/01.
I say let's do something humanitarian? Look at the Congo and that region over there. It's absolutely horrible what is going on over there. Now that would make us have respect if we tried to fix that situation. The UN workers over there are even taking advantage of those people. It's awful. I would love to see us take some action over there. Those people are suffering so greatly at the hands of the rebels. It's just hard to see how much they are suffering over there.
I agree! The end!
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